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how many mana rocks in a commander deck

I will lead of with some general assumptions. This is without muligans. This should get you an Atraxa with 90% probability on turn 4 or earlier. The colorless sources are another topic. For full disclosure, I am building a B/R deck based on Grenzo, Dungeon Warden. Just curious, I've been trying to build my first commander deck (Kalamax, extra turns theme) while relying on the internet as little as possible, but this was the one question I could not find a super reliable answer to it. [[Omnath, Locus of Mana]] probably prefers land-based ramp; [[Isamaru, Hound of Konda]] or [[Rhys the Redeemed]] doesn't need the rocks to power them out early; in my experience, [[Talrand, Sky Summoner]] can be built on a low enough curve that you barely need ramp at all. Frank Karsten estimated that an increasing the requirements by one does yield good results. Hands with 6 or less cards and 2 lands can be kept since scrying toward lands increases your success. Enchantment ramp in an enchantress Deck, creature ramp in a creature Deck and so on. Play at least 40 mana sources, 46 is probably a good number. And Memnarch. The problems is I can only use them when I already have the colored mana which is kind of a catch 22. If you're playing big expensive spells (extra turn spells + something to do during those turns) then you'd almost certainly want more. With 37 lands, that leaves you with 32 cards (not including your commander) for your primary game plan. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/09-11-14-grenzo/. This is guesswork, but I would at least increase the requirements by one for each color more than one your deck has. These are: Land Search, Non-Land Ramp, Cantrips and Card Selection/Card draw. Yeah, the Only extra turn spells I have that are instants are Nexus and [[Seedtime]]. These mana rocks are restricted in Vintage and not legal in any other format. You cannot just copy someones landcount. An interesting finding is that you have to mulligan 7-card hands that contain only two lands. After a mulligan, you scry a land to the top and a spell to the bottom, if you have less than 4 lands in hand. A good rule of thumb is that on average your mana sources should produce 2 colors (22*4/46). Cantrips: Wall of Omens, Gitaxian Probe, Ponder, Brainstorm, Scout’s Warning. There are 4 mana rocks that that provide colorless mana, Deranged Assistant and Trinket Mage who will probably get Sol Ring first. I run 7 lands that tap for colorless as well as Gemstone Caverns and Myriad Landscape which both might be used otherwise. I run 14 in muldrotha and 34 lands, 13 in windgrace and 39 lands, and 10 in gavi and 35 lands. Press J to jump to the feed. 23,25(16lands+0,95*5+1+0,75*4) white and black sources, 24,25 blue sources and 23 green sources. Mulligan any 7 card hand with 2 lands and no way to get more. This puts me at about 13 sources at turn 3 or later. Thanks man, I’m currently at 20, so I think that’s a little too much, but I’ll sub them out when a couple cards I’ve ordered come in the mail :). Note that the cards should be able to be cast before turn 4. Some decks can get away with sub 8 sources, only running the most efficient/effective types, some need much more because they want to be casting higher CMC spells, and need the extra oomph to keep up to the value engines of lower curved decks. Also, some taplands could be replaced by basics. In my Sharuum deck it's fairly loaded with rocks because the win-con is eleven mana if done in a single turn, having rocks helps keep Mox Opal online and having excess rocks makes Transmute Artifact and Reshape better. When I say mana rock I mean cards like Sol Ring, Thran Dynamo, Mana Crypt, Ravnica signets, Darksteel ingot, Coalition Relic etc. A basic rules of thumb for commander is between 40-45 mana "Lands". These are only the minimum requirements. Getting double colorless to really abuse Eldrazi Displacer is probably hard. Ramping is a big part of the deck as the game plan is to get the commander out and have seven mana the next turn as soon as possible. Given that Kalamax is a very mana-hungry deck, you'll want some chunkier ramp spells like [[Harrow]] and [[Roiling Regrowth]] on top of your ten, because they synergize with Kalamax. If you have a 5-card hand with 0, 1, or 5 lands you probably failed anyway. I usually run less because I run green a lot but that should give you a solid start on B/R. We can determined that including 13 pieces of ramp, by turn 2 you'd have a 73.4% chance of getting one. Also, Kalamax only doubles the first INSTANT each turn, and I'm pretty sure most extra turn spells are sorceries so be aware of that. The downside is that you have to mulligan more. In my Sharuum deck it's fairly loaded with rocks because the win-con is eleven mana if done in a single turn, having rocks helps keep Mox Opal online and having excess rocks makes Transmute Artifact and Reshape better. Counterspell and Mana Drain would require at least 30 blue sources which is utopian in a deck that also wants to cast Land Tax turn one. This includes typical green ramp like Rampant Growth as well as some other effects like Tithe. It depends on the type of deck, curve, cmc really. It's about finding an acceptable number. 40 lands can get you a 90% probability of hitting 4 lands turn 4. This is without muligans. It is however not optimized for (casual) multiplayer Commander. I run pretty much every mana rock that isn't total muff cabbage in my Brago deck, since flickering all of them means I can play a shit ton of cards every turn (getting an untapped Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo, and Mana Vault postcombat feels really, REALLY mean), I cut down to 34 lands because I was actually getting flooded with mana and not drawing enough cards to support it (which was really counter-intuitive for a deck with blue and without green lol). Although 10 as a minimum is a must. Warping Wail is not reliably castable on turn 2, with only 8 sources. It is a decent removal/counterspell, and a cantrip with Ephara out. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. I did not test this deck, nor do I play an Atraxa deck. I could also go competitive and add two moxen. If you really want to be 90% sure, both the chance of having enough land and the chance of having the right colors need to be about 95% (0,95²=0,9025). Sadly, there is not an easy way to calculate the odds for multicolored spells. Harrow - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)Roiling Regrowth - (G) (SF) (txt) (ER)[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call. This leads to more Mulligans but a much better chance to hit your land drops. Additionally, even when hitting land drops you probably lose anyway. Thus, I assume 8 lands. In my Mimeo deck I run Sol Ring, Mana Crypt and that's it. At last, I want to thank the friends that commented, proofread and encouraged me for this article. Brainstorm, Ponder and Preordain in Blue and Tithe or Land Tax in white. Steep color requirements like Sign in Blood in a 3 color deck are also problematic. Furthermore they might compete for the turn two mana with my colorless mana rocks which I need to cast before colorless spells. So using a hyper geometric caluclator: https://aetherhub.com/Apps/HyperGeometric. So, there are 8 Safe plus 6 unsafe sources. The calculations always look at the cases where you have drawn sufficient lands and considers the probability of having the right ones among them. As a side note, Sol Ring is probably still good but should not counted here since it does not help you cast Atraxa. Ramp and card draw are much better tools than running even more lands. For example my 5 color control deck has more green sources now. I'd say no less than 6, no more than 15. There are some ways to play less lands while effectively having the same amount of lands. So, I would increase the requirements by 3 in our hypothetical Atraxa deck. If you want to play around with the numbers or have a better look at my calculations here is the link to the Excel Sheet. If you want to be extra safe 46 lands are required. Mana Myr, [[Opaline Unicorn]], [[Scuttlemutt]], [[Workhorse]], [[Burnished Hart]], [[Solemn Simulacrum]]. It's about finding an acceptable number. However, most want to cast their Commander and play a longer game than Modern or Legacy decks. The amount, and type of ramp that you require is more or less directly tied to what your curve is, and how much you need to leverage extra mana. I do not count Mana Drain and Warping Wail since I see them more as rituals and they are also hard to cast. in front of your post to get a pm with all blocks replaced by images (to edit). I think I overestimate its potential to turbo out turn 3 Ephara. I marked the numbers for a 90% chance as well as some slightly higher numbers if you want to increase your certainty with the mana cost. It's hard for me to run many mana rocks because this deck is going to be heavily creature based, but I feel like any good EDH deck needs ramp and without access to green, we need to use rocks to pump mana quickly.

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